Talk:Star Trek (video game)
Canon? Since this is written by the writers of the film, will it be canon? Roger Murtaugh 22:46, June 3, 2011 (UTC) :No, just as Star Trek: Countdown is not canon despite the involvement of the movie's writers. Please review MA:CANON for more information, but only things depicted on screen are canon.--31dot 23:01, June 3, 2011 (UTC) Canon redux But what about now that the vice president of Paramount Pictures is saying that it absolutely is 100 percent canon? I think with certain regime changes we should take such things into consideration that this game is canon. Why shouldn't it be, just because games weren't canon before? --Noah Tall (talk) 18:15, March 7, 2013 (UTC) :Still won't be canon for us without more discussion. Short answer? We'll have to wait to see what the game entails. :Longer answer? Do you have a cite for your comments? Did he mean that it would fit in with canon, or actually be part of it? And what specifically would be canon? Games have multiple paths that can be taken, so which one would be deemed as the "canon story"? :Without knowing all of those details, we can't really determine anything. In the short term, we deem that which is filmed (TV and movie) as canon, and nothing else. -- sulfur (talk) 18:39, March 7, 2013 (UTC) ::I presume the VP of Paramount also has very limited, if any, involvement in the production of this game (and Star Trek in general) and thus they are probably just stating their personal opinion, if that's what they indeed said. ::A game (or any work) can be consistent with canon; that doesn't make it canon. Also, if this game is considered canon, that opens the door for any other game to be considered canon, or even other works like the Countdown series(which also had similar statements made about it, if I recall), or Star Trek Online (which also has some saying it is or could be canon). That's why drawing the line at filmed Star Trek is a good policy. 31dot (talk) 20:49, March 7, 2013 (UTC) :If you're referring to the discussion in this article with a Paramount VP, there's no comment about it being canon, only that it would fit with canon. -- sulfur (talk) 20:57, March 7, 2013 (UTC) Actually he indeed said it is canon, “It’s a canon story. You’re getting an untold adventure that you can’t get anywhere else. We wanted to make a game that could be a movie on its own.” - Brian Miller, senior VP and games producer of Paramount Pictures http://goo.gl/CmL1y --Meepmeep189 (talk) 01:05, March 26, 2013 (UTC) ::Again, just because it could be canon doesn't mean it is canon. When it is actually a movie, then we can talk. Mr. Miller's statement could be said about any game or novel. The Star Trek Online people have made similar comments. If we allow this game, we would have to allow all games. There's a wiki for that. 31dot (talk) 02:25, March 26, 2013 (UTC) ::Furthermore, as Sulfur asked, which parts are canon? If the player takes the role of Captain Kirk and they die does that mean Kirk dying is canon? What if there are different possibilities on how the game concludes? You are misinterpreting what he said. Every novel author and game maker wants their game to be a "canon story". Otherwise, no one would want to play it as a Star Trek game because it wouldn't be Star Trek. 31dot (talk) 02:29, March 26, 2013 (UTC) That doesn't mean the events in the story aren't canon to the new universe that's been created. In the case of video games and book and comics for the prime universe I'd agree, but this is a new universe, therefore a new canon only connected loosely to the previous canon (which makes sense considering this is indeed a reboot). In this new Canon it has been specifically said that anything overseen by the "supreme court" is part of the canon of the new universe and new canon. By classifying this game as canon, that doesn't mean you have to classify other games from the "prime/old universe" canon, it merely means you have to impose a new set of rules for a separate canon.--Meepmeep189 (talk) 00:03, March 27, 2013 (UTC) ::There is no "new canon" and "old canon", there is just canon. The entirety of the Star Trek universe was not rebooted; otherwise the last film would not have involved Nimoy's Spock and Nero from the same universe, and Abrams would have just totally ignored all previous Star Trek(in terms of his universe). It's also not true that anything the "court" oversees is canon; the Countdown comic is not canon despite the involvement of the writers of the last movie. This isn't the Star Wars universe where everything is at least partially canon. I again suggest that you visit Memory Beta, which does deal in games and incorporates them into its database. 31dot (talk) 02:01, March 27, 2013 (UTC) :Orci has also stated that the new comics and novels (that he has been personally overseeing) are not canon. Only what's on screen is canon (is what he said), "supreme court" or not. -- sulfur (talk) 02:03, March 27, 2013 (UTC) If I may play devil's advocate, how do we know that the "only TV shows/movies are canon" rule is still the rule of thumb? (A disclaimer: I don't want the video game to be canonical; from what I've heard and seen of the game, the Gorn bear little resemblance to the Gorn from TOS -- or the novels, for that matter. I also don't want to see "Star Trek" canon expand to include non-TV/movie material.) The original canon policy was invented by Gene Roddenberry. After he died, his policy was continued by Rick Berman and the others who took over creating "Star Trek". Now, for all practical purposes, J.J. Abrams is in charge of "Star Trek". Wouldn't that mean that he is now in charge, it's his decision what bears the stamp of canon? If that follows, that would mean that if he proclaims this game canon (or any of the other licensed material based on the alternate reality, for that matter), then it's canon? (To put the question another way, can we that the game is not canon, even if Abrams says "Yes, it's as canon as my movies?") (P.S. to Sulfur, if J.J. Abrams were to insist that the game was canon, I speculate that he will say that one outcome, presumably a winning one, was the "real" version and that the other outcomes were "what if" scenarios, the way in "The Force Unleashed", the canon outcome is that Starkiller turned to the light side, even though you can choose to kill Darth Vader and become the Emperor's new apprentice. And as far as people not wanting to touch it if it weren't canon, I'd disagree; I like reading "Star Trek" novels on occasion, even though I know -- and am glad -- that they are not canon.) 13:04, March 28, 2013 (UTC) :Said rule of thumb? Quoted by Orci. Multiple times. Multiple outlets. :The original canon policy was not invented by Roddenberry. His policy was that TAS was not canon. Several TOS episodes were not canon. Some movies were not canon. Etc, etc, etc. :Strictly speaking, The Force Unleashed game wasn't "canon" in the Star Wars universe, but the novel was. :Regardless, it's irrelevant to Memory Alpha at the moment. The game is not canon. -- sulfur (talk) 13:12, March 28, 2013 (UTC) ::I probably phrased the question poorly. I do understand that the official "Star Trek" canon policy is that only the TV shows and movies are canon, with TAS being initially excluded but now possibly canon (and with live action material superseding it). As I had understood it, that general policy (excusing TAS and whatever else he wanted thrown out) was originated by Roddenberry, as far as not counting licensed material based on "Star Trek" was concerned. It then evolved into more or less what we've used today. The "Star Wars" comment was merely an analogy on how other franchises have incorporated media that can take many paths into their canon (and I'm pretty sure that "The Force Unleashed" is canon -- at any rate "Knights of the Old Republic" is). :::I was only trying to raise two questions: :::Question 1: Can J.J. Abrams change "Star Trek's" canon policy since he's in charge of the current incarnation of it? If not, then who is, or is nobody? :::Question 2:If J.J. Abrams told "Memory Alpha": "The 'Star Trek' video game is as canonical as the movies and TV shows are" what would our response be? 16:43, March 28, 2013 (UTC) :Star Wars is a different beast, as Lucas was overseeing stuff, and they had an actual committee vetting everything to ensure adherence. :Can JJ change "canon"? Maybe. Who knows. :If he tells us that the game is canon? We'll cross that bridge if it occurs (I suspect that it never will). -- sulfur (talk) 17:07, March 28, 2013 (UTC) ::Indeed- Abrams does not oversee the creation of all Star Trek products like George Lucas did for Star Wars. That allowed Lucas to determine what would be in novels and games and make sure that they fit with his vision of the Star Wars universe. Trek has never had such a person; the content of Trek novels and games has almost always been determined by the persons or companies making them; Pocket Books has been directing the content of the latest Trek novels, and the makers of STO have been directing the content of their game. This includes when live-action Trek staff have been involved in creating non-canon works(like Jeri Taylor's novels, Armin Shimerman's novel, and even the Countdown comic) 31dot (talk) 18:49, March 28, 2013 (UTC) :::I think we are in a transition phase when it comes to media. When the first rules of the canon were founded, TV/Movies were considered separate from other forms of media, i.e. comics, games, and the like. A person could have an understanding and appreciation of one, without knowing about the other. Now, they are becoming to be seen as a components of a larger whole, what the industry calls synergy. For instance, the comics and the eleventh movie worked together to tell a complete story. Now, we have the next movie, and it's becoming clear that we are seeing the pattern repeated. I don't know where in this story the game will fit. For myself, I see three solutions: (1.) acknowledge that what has been produced outside the movies in the Abrams reign is canon and treat it as canon, or (2.) acknowledge somewhere in the background notes that this material is treated as tentatively being canon, or (3.) adhere to the standard set thirty years ago. Personally, I favor two, for it is a compromise, a middle between the two extremes. Throwback (talk) 20:31, March 28, 2013 (UTC) :One issue there is that some of the material contained in the Countdown comics, for example, was contradicted by the final cut of the movie. I'm certain the same will happen with the novels, ongoing series, and so forth. -- sulfur (talk) 06:17, March 29, 2013 (UTC) ::I don't believe this is a serious issue, as, from and within the first series, there have been contradictions in the canon Star Trek. I think they are called retcons.Throwback (talk) 05:53, March 30, 2013 (UTC) I agree with that statement, Memora Alpha has documented numerous canon contradictions in their articles. In this case we're not saying all books, comics, and games are canon, just that anything overseen but the "court" is canon to the new universe they created. Just because we don't want it to be canon doesn't mean it isn't. I'm willing to agree to the 2nd option presented by Throwback.--Meepmeep189 (talk) 03:03, April 1, 2013 (UTC) ::Canon contradictions are just that- found in canon. Games have never been considered canon (of any level) in the Trek universe, something which Orci has said about his own comics(it's not canon just because he wrote it). The misinterpreted comments of one Paramount VP who probably had little involvement in actually working on the game doesn't make the game canon. Just because some want games to be canon doesn't mean they are, either. There is no need to change how we approach canon content. 31dot (talk) 10:35, April 1, 2013 (UTC) ::: They are hardly misinterpreted, this guy has said in countless interviews "This is Canon" http://goo.gl/q8HQL around the 1 minute mark, http://goo.gl/5NLnZ also says in this one he worked with "The Supreme Court," http://goo.gl/2JrCC in which also states that he is also the Game producer on the game, and numerous other interviews across the web and gaming communities. It also fits in with Orci's statement that anything overseen by "The Supreme Court" relating to the new star trek series of films or "reboot" (like it or not it is a reboot with ties to the previous incarnation of Trek) is in fact canon http://goo.gl/WwqaJ . yes he did require coaxing to do it, but they have been following the precendent of that policy as it has here with this game. :I direct you to his followup comment, in which he states: ::i have said a million times that we cant determine what is canon :He was cajoled into saying something for the article. -- sulfur (talk) 10:18, April 4, 2013 (UTC) ::I never said the film was not canon or not a reboot; not sure where you got that. As I said above, there is a difference between being canon and fitting in with canon; if the game didn't fit with canon, no one would buy it as a Trek game. 31dot (talk) 10:27, April 4, 2013 (UTC) :::You still have to conceed that this game is canon. If we aren't going to make a new set of rules right now for the rebooted universe, you at least have to list this as such. This guy did not say it "fits in with canon" he said "this game is canon, this is what offically happened between the last movie and Star trek Into Darkness." Splitscreen? will it have splitscreen :I'm not sure, but this isn't really the correct forum to ask- a gaming site or general Star Trek discussion site would be better.--31dot 02:25, December 7, 2011 (UTC) Screenshots I have a few screenshots that I got from the official game website, can I add them to the article? T-888 (talk) 07:13, December 21, 2012 (UTC) :Please review MA:IMAGE before doing so; if you have any questions afterwards, please post them here. 31dot (talk) 10:14, December 21, 2012 (UTC)